tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post8361095719658651798..comments2023-08-14T10:44:59.007-04:00Comments on Novel Spaces: Space OperaKeVin K.http://www.blogger.com/profile/14792797517571690942noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-66655507686715343162011-06-16T09:42:45.664-04:002011-06-16T09:42:45.664-04:00I'm french. And the best author of actual spac...I'm french. And the best author of actual space opera is Pierre Bordage. His most famous books is a trilogy called "les guerriers du silence" (silent warriors). And this cycle show a good balance between adventure, political intrigues and mysticisms. There is a ton of invention, plantes, fauna and flora. I regret, this author have no translation in english. <br />From France, i'va the impression, the actual american space opera is more and more rare. I am not a fan of militaristic side of genre. I have also the impression what the english language space opera is nowaday an english litterature more than an american one. I look the publication schedule at Locus web, and space opera are more rare then few years ago.<br /><br />Sorry for the bad englis.Fabien Lyraudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01534294302016958334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-1244268062244147262011-06-03T11:21:11.906-04:002011-06-03T11:21:11.906-04:00Anonymous, thanks for the tip. I'll check it o...Anonymous, thanks for the tip. I'll check it out. I'm always on the lookout for that sort of thing.<br /><br />Carole, thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-57974577760008958592011-05-30T16:55:58.541-04:002011-05-30T16:55:58.541-04:00Great post. Can't wait for you to finish up t...Great post. Can't wait for you to finish up the book so I can read. Although this wasn't a review of what you are writing, it made me want to read it. And it made me not want to read the other junk.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03828426520214270655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-39234902283174534032011-05-30T15:49:54.779-04:002011-05-30T15:49:54.779-04:00"Now, let me make one thing clear about my me..."Now, let me make one thing clear about my meaning here. Just because there is action and a plot that moves does not mean there can’t be character development and important insights into the human condition. But, at least for me, authors need to imbed that development and those insights in a matrix of adventure."<br /><br />That pretty much nails it, Charles. What I see in current "space opera" is either too much "literary-itis" or the gamer obsession with action and weird characters. Space opera has many sub-genres, besides Military. The space western is one such that I've been working in for some time now. You might want to check out "Jack Brand" as an example of exactly what you're talking about--a mix of strong action, stronger characters, and commentary about LIFE as we humans know it. <br />http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Brand-John-M-Whalen/dp/1617060135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297907507&sr=8-1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-81758359332624080782011-05-30T10:19:16.984-04:002011-05-30T10:19:16.984-04:00Anton, thanks for dropping by. "The princess&...Anton, thanks for dropping by. "The princess" sounds cool. I'll definitely check it outCharles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-62369494442150382052011-05-30T06:52:07.849-04:002011-05-30T06:52:07.849-04:00Oh, and if anyone wants to read a 8k word absolute...Oh, and if anyone wants to read a 8k word absolute blast of a Space Cowboys story check out "The Princess" by Ray Mancebo over at Raygunrevival.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.raygunrevival.com/the-princess-part-one-robert-mancebo/" rel="nofollow">Part One</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.raygunrevival.com/the-princess-part-two-robert-mancebo/" rel="nofollow">Part Two</a>Panicswitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074225770192887676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-78168583780791694782011-05-30T06:44:36.298-04:002011-05-30T06:44:36.298-04:00The first couple of Scalzi's Old Mans War book...The first couple of Scalzi's Old Mans War books are decent MilSF that don't take themselves too seriously. The third one is a bad book, IMO. Never read book 2.5 but I suspect I wouldn't like it. You can read the first two without having to read the rest, or either one really - they're pretty self-contained.Panicswitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074225770192887676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-11948929603628981292011-05-29T02:59:18.959-04:002011-05-29T02:59:18.959-04:00Liane, I consider Farenheit 451 and Brave New Worl...Liane, I consider Farenheit 451 and Brave New World to both have all kinds of action and thrills in them. Farenheit is high on the blowing shit up meter, or rather "burning" shit up. I can enjoy short stories where the whole thing is internalized and intimate (Hills like White Elephants), but a novel is too long for that. It needs some movement.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-49178704331710503242011-05-28T23:37:28.354-04:002011-05-28T23:37:28.354-04:00Your post made me laugh. Different strokes, Charle...Your post made me laugh. Different strokes, Charles. I love literary SF (Chrysalids, Farenheit, Brave New World) but they are great stories, not internal ruminations. <br /><br />Some literary fiction bores me insane; those are the ones where nothing happens and the author takes a long time to tell me that. Stories that focus on blowing up shit also bore me. 'Things happening' can be internal and intimate and yet be utterly compelling to me.Liane Spicerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05035607144500219524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-78180896871749790782011-05-28T18:47:37.871-04:002011-05-28T18:47:37.871-04:00X. Dell, the problem for me is that if things don’...X. Dell, the problem for me is that if things don’t “happen,” then there is no possibility of emotional investment. Angst without action is like eating gruel without even any salt. Here’s my rating scale:<br />#1. Good characters, emotional stakes, evocative writing, and shit blowing up.<br />#2. Good characters, emotional stakes, shit blowing up.<br />#3. Good characters, emotional stakes.<br />#10. Good ideas, revelations about human nature (which are almost always obvious anyway)<br /># Way down the line: lame characters, talky pretend emotions, nothing happens<br /><br /> <br /> ivan, Manet sounds like my lovely Lana. <br /><br /><br /> The Golden Eagle, very little literary fiction does anything for me. Some of it is excellent. I like McCarthy, Hemingway. But most seems to be about lame people doing either lame things or doing nothing at all, and not really learning anything from their ‘lack’ of experiences. I often can appreciate the good writing you find in literary fiction, but to truly hold my interest it needs to be matched with events.<br /><br /><br /> KeVin K., I’ve not read Weber, though I just recently bought one of his books. The fact that he hates Star Trek prejudices me against him. It suggests he doesn’t know how to have fun and doesn’t realize that, essentially, ALL space empire or earth-colonizing-other-solar-system space stories are unrealistic. A created universe has to be internally consistent, and I like that Weber did that much work on his universe. That says something good for him. But, the created universe does not have to be consistent with exactly the real universe that we know. And having ‘one’ element of the created universe be unrealistic, such as FTL ships, is no better than having multiple elements be unrealistic, as in Star Trek. As long as the universe is consistent with the laws developed for it, I’m willing to let the writer play to his or her heart’s content.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-27408503146660342952011-05-28T16:42:46.920-04:002011-05-28T16:42:46.920-04:00Met David Weber once. He developed a 90k-word refe...Met David Weber once. He developed a 90k-word reference of history, politics, tech, etc., for Honor Harrington's universe before he wrote a single story. I was pretty pleased with myself for recognizing one of his space battles was a retread of the Battle of Jutland. Of course, I just know what happened, he knew the bridge officers for every ship involved and which one gave what order when. He absolutely hates Star Trek (the uniform of the elite gestapo analog for the bad-guy People's Republic is a red tunic, black high-water pants and jodhpurs-esque boots) so he wasn't too impressed with my work. He'd disagree with you on Trek being Space Opera -- he likened it to a really bad head-'em-off-at-the-pass western.<br /><br />I tend to like juvenile sf of the golden age. Heinlein's Have Space Suit Will Travel is pretty much my standard for the hero's journey space opera. My BattleTech and Mechwarrior fiction is military SF -- which is usually what I call my primary genre rather than explain game tie-in.KeVin K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14792797517571690942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-67764196500769325802011-05-28T16:23:13.086-04:002011-05-28T16:23:13.086-04:00I don't mind literary fiction on the whole--bu...I don't mind literary fiction on the whole--but I do agree. When I pick up something with the label "Space Opera" I expect action, not pages of explanation and/or the narrator's thoughts.Golden Eaglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08721520451194318436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-68381822875183820272011-05-28T12:36:35.336-04:002011-05-28T12:36:35.336-04:00What is it with serious creative types?
Somewhe...What is it with serious creative types?<br /><br />Somewhere, Manet wrote, "Some days I just want to get up, pick up machine gun andjust shoot everybody."<br /><br />And Bruce Cockburn a generation ago:<br /><br />"If I had a rocket launcher<br />I'd make some sonavabitch pay."<br /><br />But we send out our armies, our assassins on paper.<br /><br />A parody on a Forties Musical:<br /><br />"Gee, I wish I had a jihad."ivan@creativewriting.ca:http://www.creativewrting.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-72942249120714719122011-05-28T11:20:09.727-04:002011-05-28T11:20:09.727-04:00I would guess that with any genre, the basic eleme...I would guess that with any genre, the basic elements of narrative apply. What good does it do to "blow some shit up" if there's nothing at stake, emotionally?X. Dellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561609651507566271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-91333585157130826292011-05-28T02:45:32.348-04:002011-05-28T02:45:32.348-04:00Lana, thankee
David, it should be finished before...Lana, thankee<br /><br />David, it should be finished before the end of june. No knowing how long after that it'll be published thoughCharles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-41812726809118667982011-05-28T02:41:38.091-04:002011-05-28T02:41:38.091-04:00ANy ball park figure on when “Under the Ember Sta...ANy ball park figure on when “Under the Ember Star” might be available?nephite blood spartan hearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17092519999184585295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-41090941956494241252011-05-28T02:28:13.303-04:002011-05-28T02:28:13.303-04:00I really can't wait to read it, hon. I haven&#...I really can't wait to read it, hon. I haven't read good space opera in ages!Lana Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06975996208260144558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-92124180516770896412011-05-27T16:07:36.234-04:002011-05-27T16:07:36.234-04:00Bernardl, you've got me.Bernardl, you've got me.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-90194137105923390802011-05-27T11:41:35.548-04:002011-05-27T11:41:35.548-04:00There's a reason the old form works - people l...There's a reason the old form works - people like it. Get out the blasters and alien villains, mix in a little romance with bad-ass heroes and heroines, and it's a winner. :)BernardLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09722619048888613647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-91237186455258044602011-05-27T11:18:26.373-04:002011-05-27T11:18:26.373-04:00Angie, Most military SF falls under the space oper...Angie, Most military SF falls under the space opera category to me. Not all. If you read like David Drake’s Hammers Slammers series, or all the stuff that was published in the There will be War series, or Laumer’s Bolo stuff. I put it on the hard edge of space opera. Star spanning empires are the very essence of space opera, and having ships and bolo systems that would deplete the entire economies of small planets is an example of the “opera-ishness” of the story. I’m not criticizing that. I like that very much. Star Trek is Space opera and it’s my favorite TV SF of all time. Space opera is often demaned as tossing reality out the window, but it doesn’t have to be that way. It just has to let the imagination have some free reign. I’ve not read David Weber. I recently read some William Dietz, who writes military SF and I didn’t much like his Legion of the Damned. I’ve been meaning to get some Weber<br /> <br /> Deka Black, that’s what I want. Keep adventure up front and center.<br /><br /> G, I don’t like much literary fiction anyway. I don’t really need to read about a world that I live in every day. Some of it can be worthwhile. I’m not a big literary fic reader though.<br /><br /> Mark, I typically don’t read fiction for philosophy, although I think most writers’ philosophy comes through at some point. Mostly I’m fairly happy with my personal philosophy, the one I live my live based on. My personal philosophy in movies and certain kinds of books though is :”blow some shit up:” :)<br /> <br /> laughingwolf, exactamundo.<br /> <br /> Alex J. Cavanaugh, Me too. I guess you could say we’ve chosen the “Dark side?” No, the “fun side.”<br /> <br /> eric1313, if you strive to write a story that resonates with readers, that touches their emotions, then the deeper stuff has a chance to get through and work its magic, but if you are too heavy handed the reader just gets bored and or feels preached at and goes away.<br /> <br /> Paul R. McNamee, I’ve done some thinking about what it means to be human. I’m happy with those thoughts. Now take me somewhere else and let me have some fun!<br /><br /> Randy Johnson, I’ve only read one Star Wars novel and didn’t care much for it. I did like the early Star Trek stuff and still read an occasional one of those. I don’t mind deeper stuff with my fiction, although I’ve pretty well established most of my philosophical views these days. I just want there to be color and movement too.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-35693425062698006342011-05-27T10:58:36.183-04:002011-05-27T10:58:36.183-04:00Mirror my feelings a lot. I got into the military ...Mirror my feelings a lot. I got into the military Sf for a while and it wasn't bad. Then it got to be drudgery reading soon after. Some authors get it right, others don't. I learn fast.<br /><br />Bring back those good old days. I still like the original Star Trek novels, mostly, but not to much of the other series.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-9034493915090664072011-05-27T10:35:56.225-04:002011-05-27T10:35:56.225-04:00"you might be introduced to some deep thought...<i>"you might be introduced to some deep thoughts about what it means to be human. Screw that, I say! Blow some shit up! Give us some smoking blasters. Give us some colorful exotic action. Let the characters move and breathe in an unfettered imaginary universe"</i><br /><br />Right on!Paul R. McNameehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13498380385001618758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-7603636912140606382011-05-27T09:30:23.255-04:002011-05-27T09:30:23.255-04:00The story becomes its own message, its own metapho...The story becomes its own message, its own metaphor. Readers do that, the informing of the work--authors should never tell the reader what it means. (lol, don't mean to get all postmodern on ya there) It's best when authors stand back and just tell the damn story! People are going to make of it what they will, no?<br /><br />I mean, to me at least, the SW saga is a story of one man's fall, and his eventual redemption, a redemption that only comes when his son is almost dead before his eyes, a son who was stronger in the face of temptation than he was. The Emperor had once used Vader's desperate need to keep those whom he loves safe against him to twist him to the darkside. Seems the emperor forgot in that last moment that that was his primary tool because it reawakened within Vader the old selfless part of his character, one who would toss the emperor like so much garbage down an exhaust port to a reactor core in the heart of their greatest war machine, the very symbol of their might, and die in the process. <br /><br />At some point we forget about the ancient Greek notions of sons overthrowing fathers, the ideas of hubris and nemesis. We let go of the story of a farm boy who learns to slay giants, an echo of David with a twist. We let go of the framed-in idea of bringing balance to "the force". We almost let go of the ideas of the human condition, of love being stronger than the lust for power, eventually conquering all as it must (it should anyway, lol). We want to know, does Luke get out of there from the chaos before the reactor blows up in a megaton explosion? Does Han Solo get the girl? Does C3PO shut up? Does Lando try to repaint that scratch before he hands over the keys to the Falcon? Maybe we wonder that... But it's true. The story in this case is much more than a collection of symbols and metaphors and allegories.eric1313https://www.blogger.com/profile/13807078704660045859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-64567199442459358222011-05-27T09:04:48.732-04:002011-05-27T09:04:48.732-04:00Star Trek and Star Wars are perfect space opera ex...Star Trek and Star Wars are perfect space opera examples. And that's the genre I write.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-62657635444496938002011-05-27T08:14:25.556-04:002011-05-27T08:14:25.556-04:00yeah, gimme kickass action... sneak in the 'mo...yeah, gimme kickass action... sneak in the 'moralizing' without making it an info dump!laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.com