tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post3868415283611383347..comments2023-08-14T10:44:59.007-04:00Comments on Novel Spaces: The Invisible WriterKeVin K.http://www.blogger.com/profile/14792797517571690942noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-89269677220254487112011-02-14T18:21:38.297-05:002011-02-14T18:21:38.297-05:00Lana, you remarkably silly and yet the sweetest th...Lana, you remarkably silly and yet the sweetest thing.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-36642527994040424862011-02-14T13:25:05.685-05:002011-02-14T13:25:05.685-05:00I can hear you say "poetry" in my head &...I can hear you say "poetry" in my head & I love it (and you.)Lana Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06975996208260144558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-36963530662128486142011-02-14T08:45:46.191-05:002011-02-14T08:45:46.191-05:00Liane, I have not read THe god of small things but...Liane, I have not read THe god of small things but with that recommendation I'm going to look it up right away.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-8693640901766741782011-02-13T16:12:28.212-05:002011-02-13T16:12:28.212-05:00Yes! A good story trumps all, of course, but it...Yes! A good story trumps all, of course, but it's so very satisfying when it's told in luminous poetic prose. <i>The God of Small Things</i> comes to mind. A colleague hated it for the poetic imagery; I couldn't put it down for the same reason.<br /><br />I think trying to separate the writer from the tale that comes filtered through his psyche, intellect and experience is something of an affectation. I dislike that.Liane Spicerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05035607144500219524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-53998626931454604602011-02-13T10:26:28.850-05:002011-02-13T10:26:28.850-05:00laughingwolf, There are definitely several element...laughingwolf, There are definitely several elements needed for a story to ‘truly’ work.<br /><br /> Travis Erwin, lol. Very good analogy. I hadn’t thought of that, but now I will.<br /><br /> Travis Cody, I made it through the first Lee child I read but while the story was decent the prose really kept kicking me out of the tale. I probably won’t read another. AT least not anytime soon.<br /><br /> JR, I spend a lot of time in my writing for psychology book talking about how writing and talking are two very different things. Both involve language, and that’s close to the extent of their similarity.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-64300324330483332382011-02-12T22:20:33.790-05:002011-02-12T22:20:33.790-05:00Joel Saltzman says, "IF YOU CAN TALK, YOU CAN...Joel Saltzman says, "IF YOU CAN TALK, YOU CAN WRITE." It's also the title of his self-help book on writing; I think his book's useful for memoir, but not fiction. Could it be that "invisible prose" has something to do with it? I'm not too sure.JR's Thumbprintshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479324326541901987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-36329527159326298282011-02-12T15:44:25.303-05:002011-02-12T15:44:25.303-05:00I have a book by Lee Child that I just haven't...I have a book by Lee Child that I just haven't been able to get into. The description of the story is intriguing, but each time I try to read it I just don't like it.<br /><br />I wonder if this idea of invisible prose is the reason. There's just something in the writing that is unappealing to me.Travis Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06192526507760146748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-4567692904059479442011-02-12T14:18:59.722-05:002011-02-12T14:18:59.722-05:00I writer trying to be invisible is the literary eq...I writer trying to be invisible is the literary equivalent of mental masturbation. I want to be engaged with the writer and not seeing traces of their involvement is sort of like closing your eyes and imagining what a woman feels like. It will do in a pinch but it's not nearly as satisfying.Travis Erwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09420879160702098979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-84670734574540664372011-02-12T14:14:46.642-05:002011-02-12T14:14:46.642-05:00agreed, charles...
the best reads are those wher...agreed, charles... <br /><br />the best reads are those where i'm drawn into the story, not as a participant but as an observer, though totally "involved'... failing that, the tale fails as well...laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-60467062275160498502011-02-12T11:07:16.241-05:002011-02-12T11:07:16.241-05:00X. Dell, the writer, or artist of any type, I gues...X. Dell, the writer, or artist of any type, I guess, has to learn the strengths of 'their' medium and not try to make it sound exactly or be exactly like some other medium.<br /><br /> Captain Black, that's probably a good idea, and you'll be the better for it.<br /><br />ivan, I just woke up so haven't changed my own blog post to reflect the fact that mine went up yesterday. Will do that. Haven't even read the grammarian blog post but will do so now with your comments in mind.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-35869759994546245892011-02-12T09:46:14.869-05:002011-02-12T09:46:14.869-05:00For some reason, this site bedevils my browser, an...For some reason, this site bedevils my browser, and at any rate, I think these Wal*Mart glasses don't help.<br />I mistakenly read Patricia O'Connors blog on grammar first, before perusing yours on The Invisible Writer. Patricia's was a good blog....Brought out the grammarian in the closet.<br /><br />So Zowie! I'll just repring it here.<br /><br /><br />While no grammarian has ever written anything of real consequence, one would be a real ignoramus to try to sully the craft of writing without an awareness of grammar...Uless, maybe, you're a theologian, like Rabbi Burns. :)<br />Scots broad is acceptable as well as ghetto rap...But even here, you must be hip..stay in the groove....never awkward.<br /><br />In a word, you have to know the rules before you can break them.<br /><br />My best advice came from a decrepid playwright who said the first thing i needed to know was the difference between the subjenctive and the indicative.<br />Tongue twisting, yes, but<br />this is best shown in Patricia O'Conors little test up above.<br /><br />I wish I was / were in St. Kitts.<br /><br />Gotta be like a Frenchman to do it right--to know the difference between the subjunctive--as it may be at all times--and the indicative, or the way it actually WAS.<br />And then I'd read Humpty-Dumpty's incomparable speech to Alice in Through the Looking Glass.<br /><br />What do I know? I am merely God. :)<br /><br />...And while full of that hubris,I wanna tap somebody's head with a pencil eraser for getting his singularls and plurals mixed up.<br />I grate when someody says something like "everybody must pick up their books..." Grr!<br /><br />Cold it be that I am a closet grammarian? Egad.ivan@creativewritng.cahttp://www.creativewriting.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-46405699536794002862011-02-12T05:09:57.445-05:002011-02-12T05:09:57.445-05:00From now on I'm going to ignore all so-called ...From now on I'm going to ignore all so-called writing "rules", unless I can determine two things:<br /><br />* Their provenance/origin.<br />* (More importantly) their justification/reasoning.<br /><br />Thank you. That is all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-31602036193052638462011-02-11T22:42:35.570-05:002011-02-11T22:42:35.570-05:00I couldn't agree more. Even when writing for ...I couldn't agree more. Even when writing for the screen (big or small) the words still have an air of formality about them, basically because the writer has very little space in which to make things clear. The writer thus relies upon the acting and directing to make dialogue sound "natural." (And in many, many cases, it never does.)X. Dellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561609651507566271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-31734951830653174972011-02-11T22:16:55.772-05:002011-02-11T22:16:55.772-05:00Ron, I like that. And I think, like you, I'm ...Ron, I like that. And I think, like you, I'm not thrown out of the story merely by noticing the writer writing. If the poetry of it holds me then it enhances the experience rather than detracting. I guess it's like food; although I am perfectly happy with plain good food, it's kind of nice when it's also presented well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-56495204405717220162011-02-11T19:38:27.306-05:002011-02-11T19:38:27.306-05:00I'm an oddball. I am aware of the writer writi...I'm an oddball. I am aware of the writer writing even while I suspend disbelief and "live" as you say the imagined experience. Same way with movies. I'm aware of the creative decisions being made while I'm also following and enjoying the story.<br /><br />It may be because I've long been interested in illusion itself. Godard, I think it was, talked about the difference between an illusion of reality and the reality of an illusion. The interplay between the two fascinates me. The style of writing contributes to that, or it doesn't.Ron Scheerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15357501069513854664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-50152222195358484962011-02-11T18:57:53.506-05:002011-02-11T18:57:53.506-05:00Tyhitia, I think some folks are really sort of ton...Tyhitia, I think some folks are really sort of tone deaf when it comes to appreciating the rhythm of prose. to them the music of the prose makes no difference. But to me it does.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-1055487573126730342011-02-11T15:43:50.950-05:002011-02-11T15:43:50.950-05:00This is why I read widely--to get a sense of diffe...This is why I read widely--to get a sense of different styles and what makes a story good so that I can create my own stories in a way that will enthrall the reader. Great post, Charles. :-DTyhitia Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14070000168178880911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-51490187544692013222011-02-11T13:54:46.922-05:002011-02-11T13:54:46.922-05:00Alex, I've seen it talked about here and there...Alex, I've seen it talked about here and there. I thought King mentioned it in his book "on writing" but when I was lookign for it the other night I couldn't find it.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-60286701182103291812011-02-11T12:05:06.877-05:002011-02-11T12:05:06.877-05:00Never realized there was such a thing as transpare...Never realized there was such a thing as transparent prose.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-63675218820661037542011-02-11T11:58:52.492-05:002011-02-11T11:58:52.492-05:00David J. West. yes, exactly. Bring me into it, n...David J. West. yes, exactly. Bring me into it, not only just from the story, but from the description and poetry of it. It's best when it's the whole package.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-79944672904172950862011-02-11T10:01:59.756-05:002011-02-11T10:01:59.756-05:00I'm with you Charles-I love the sense of "...I'm with you Charles-I love the sense of "Sit down and let me tell you what happened..." or even having the poetry of description-sometimes as a writer I think you do need to TELL and not just SHOW.nephite blood spartan hearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17092519999184585295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-15891218728025918152011-02-11T09:46:30.798-05:002011-02-11T09:46:30.798-05:00Tom, I do like first person narration. I feel a s...Tom, I do like first person narration. I feel a sense of immediciacy with it, and I rather like writing in first person. I know many who like it and many who don't. Someday we'll have to try to figure out the difference between them.<br /><br />Bernardl, the better the story, the less important the prose becomes. I'll certainly agree with that.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-2405541359236768102011-02-11T09:35:42.424-05:002011-02-11T09:35:42.424-05:00I'm moved by uplifting prose, but if a story&#...I'm moved by uplifting prose, but if a story's good and mixed with humor the prose can be as plain as walnut shells for me. :)BernardLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09722619048888613647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-21545050324203759302011-02-11T08:51:56.231-05:002011-02-11T08:51:56.231-05:00I kind of like reading stories that feel like they...I kind of like reading stories that feel like they are being told to me. I like the "voice" to be relatable. Things like using huge words, and "educated" speach kind of turn me off. Unless, like you say, it's a really good story.<br /><br />Ironically, I tend to shy away from first-person narratives. Not sure why that is.Tom Doolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451129317759266295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5594341074652821017.post-64356478387522897032011-02-11T08:51:24.297-05:002011-02-11T08:51:24.297-05:00Angie, absolutely. There's no right or wrong ...Angie, absolutely. There's no right or wrong way for every reader and writer. I know people who adore Lee child's work. Too me I'd like a little more oomph.<br /><br />Mark, yes, and that's part of why I read, to get another person's take on things, to feel things through another mind so to speak.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.com